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Jim Ryan, president of the University of Virginia: You’re a father of three students who are in college or have graduated. Do you ever find yourself treating them like you’re the chief student affairs officer of your home?

Kenyon Bonner, vice president and chief student affairs officer: They don’t allow me. I have no authority really, other than Dad. Like you and I could say the same thing and they will listen to you and say, “That’s really good advice, President Ryan.”

Ryan: Hi, everyone. I’m Jim Ryan, president of the University of Virginia, and I’d like to welcome all of you to another episode of “Inside UVA.” This podcast is a chance for me to speak with some of the amazing people at the University and to learn more about what they do and who they are. My hope is that listeners will ultimately have a better understanding of how UVA works, and a deeper appreciation of the remarkably talented and dedicated people who make UVA the institution it is. 

I’m joined today by Vice President Kenyon Bonner. Kenyon serves as the vice president for student affairs and chief student affairs officer at UVA, a role he assumed back in January of this year. Prior to UVA, Kenyon spent over two decades working at all levels of student affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, including most recently as the vice provost for student affairs. He’s earned a doctorate in education from the University of Pennsylvania, a master’s in education from Kent State University, and a bachelor’s in philosophy and psychology from Washington and Jefferson College. Kenyon is an experienced leader and caring mentor, and we are grateful he has joined us at UVA. 

Today, I am very excited to welcome him to the podcast. Kenyon, thank you for being here.

Bonner: Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Ryan: So let me start with a question I’ve been wondering about: What’s up with, or what was up with, “Riding in Cars With Kenyon”?

Bonner: “Riding in Cars with Kenyon” – yeah, that was an idea that my student affairs marketing team came up with. I guess they had observed me interacting with students, just casually on campus at Pitt, and they thought it would be interesting to kind of take on something that they had seen on TV. I think Seinfeld had done something – there was like, car karaoke or something. And they said, “Hey, we got this idea, and it came from students as well.” 

And at first, I was a little apprehensive about doing it. But they kept saying, “No, we think we think you’d be good at this.” So, at some point, I was like, “You know what, it’s a student and me and a car. I like driving. My children, I talk in the car. So let’s try it.” And I enjoyed it. Right? It just worked out. So it wasn’t really as daunting as I thought, once I really broke it down to the different pieces.

Ryan: Was there any karaoke involved?

Bonner: There was no karaoke. Yeah, I have two rules. I don’t sing and I don’t dance at work.

Ryan: Are you thinking that you’ll import that here to UVA? “Cars with Kenyon”?

Bonner: Or something that fits UVA. I do want to do something where I’m engaging with students. 

I think the biggest benefit of that was highlighting students. People were able to see the remarkable diversity of our student body and the talent and the passion, and so I would like to explore doing something here to highlight our UVA students, because I think they’re, they’re dynamic and have a lot to offer. I think it’s great for people to kind of hear their stories and learn about what they’re up to. 

Ryan: I agree. Just promise me you won’t do “Scootering with Kenyon.”

Bonner: No, no. If we do, we’ll have helmets.

Ryan: Alright. So you arrived in January. Tell me a little bit about how your semester has been. It’s not been the easiest semester to start, given the conflict in the Middle East, for sure.

Bonner: Yeah, it has not been easy. It’s – that’s also been, you know, obviously a lot of conversations with students and getting up to speed on their experiences at UVA and catching up on all the work that was done in the fall. But it’s been an enjoyable, really productive time since I arrived. I’ve had a lot of engagement with our students, a lot of learning about UVA, where things are, who people are. So, you know, I’ve had a good time catching up. 

It’s been busy, and in moments challenging, but that’s part of the student affairs work in higher education. I think it keeps it intriguing and interesting, and you never do that kind of work alone, so I’ve got a really great team of colleagues that’s really been helping my transition. 

Ryan: Anything stand out to you or surprise you in your first few months?

Bonner: Nothing surprised me about UVA. I think UVA is what everyone said it was during the recruitment process when I talked to students. 

What I’m learning, though, is that it’s even much more than that when you’re a member of the community. So, it felt good that what was said about UVA, I started to see immediately when I arrived. The longer I’m here, I gain a better, stronger, deeper appreciation for those things and you really can’t experience that until you become a member of the community. 

I feel like that’s maybe more surprising to me is that it’s even better than advertised, and so that’s been exciting.

Ryan: So let’s go back to the very beginning. You were born and raised in Cleveland. Is that right? 

Bonner: Born and raised in Cleveland, Ohio. Yeah.

Ryan: Has it been tough to be a Browns fan all your life?

Bonner: It has been tough. People who are Browns fans, or like the Detroit Lions, we’re real fans, right? Because we’ve been abused our entire life and childhood. But no, I enjoy the Browns. I’m born and raised – it was particularly rough when I was in Pittsburgh for 20 years, in Steeler country, but yeah, I’m always going to be a Browns fan.

Ryan: I’m glad you’re loyal. So what was college like for you? I understand you played basketball when you were in college – you must have grown up playing basketball. 

Bonner: I grew up playing basketball. 

Ryan: Did you play other sports as well? 

Bonner: I played football, ran track in middle school, and high school, I ran track and played basketball. I wanted to play football in high school, but I grew like five inches over one summer and the basketball coach just basically kidnapped me and didn’t allow me to play football. And I didn’t have an interest in football like that. So yeah, my height, and I think my talent leaned me towards basketball. And then I ended up playing in college, Washington and Jefferson College. 

It was a good experience athletically – difficult transitioning to a school like that, from my high school in Cleveland to a small liberal arts college. There weren’t a lot of black students at the time. But, you know, if I had to go back and do it again, I would, because I learned a lot about myself now. I would hope that things would be a little bit different, and not so challenging, at least in my first couple of years. But it was a really valuable experience, and basketball was a big part of my college experience. As well as the classroom – like I thrived also in the classroom, just learning and working with some really phenomenal professors.

Ryan: Did you get interested in student affairs when you were in college? Or did that come after? 

Bonner: No, I had no idea that student affairs was a profession, or a thing in undergrad. I didn’t learn about student affairs until I finished my master’s degree and I was counseling students during my practicum. I was in a counseling program, and the students will share stories about their experience at Kent State. I started to think the students aren’t the issue; they aren’t the problem. They’re running into these transition issues and challenges and offices and really having trouble connecting, and I started to think, “Who’s responsible for that?” 

When I talked to some of my colleagues, and other students, they started talking about student affairs. Having come from a small liberal arts college, student affairs didn’t really present itself like that at that time. And so that’s when I learned that this was a field, and there were opportunities to work in higher ed administration to work directly with students and be at those tables and discussions and decision-making that impacted the environment. That’s what I got really interested in the field.

Ryan: So walk me through your career. Where did you begin? What level did you begin at? And how did you find your way to UVA eventually?

Bonner: I began as a hall director at Kent State, a residence hall. It was an all-male residence hall at the time, a lot of former high school athletes and student-athletes. You know, I had the worst discipline record of all the halls at that time. They just put me in there, and they said, “Good luck.” So I learned quickly, but I knew that the most important thing I could do was build community and build some sense of identity that was not a negative identity. 

We started just talking to students about this being, like, the academic hall and our community is really interested in social events. As students started to hear that, they started to believe it and that’s when we became, we became a hall that didn’t really manifest itself in what people had called us, or the students in terms of having discipline problems, but a fun, active, engaged community. 

I just fell in love with the idea of, like, pulling students together, them believing in this vision of who we wanted to be – that is, who they want it to be, right? We changed the entire culture that way. So I started as a hall director for, did that for a few years, and then had an opportunity to serve as an area coordinator, supervising hall directors. Then I moved into an assistant director position, supervising area coordinators. That was the sort of my career at Kent State. 

Eventually through a mentor at Kent, who sat me down one day and said, “You need to leave here.” At first, I was a little offended. I was like, “What do you mean?” And he said, “You’ve tapped out, you’re no longer challenged. You, you have a lot of potential; you need, you need a different experience.” He suggested that I look into a position in student conduct at the University of Pittsburgh. 

I applied for that position; they had already filled it, and they said, “Well, we’d love you to consider this other position in residence life, the associate director of residence life.” So I took that position, enjoyed it, and then from there just moved up into different positions – director, associate dean of students, and then eventually vice provost of student affairs.

And then this opportunity at UVA – working in a very different type of, of course, a public institution, but different context. The student self-governance piece was really intriguing to me, not having that formal student self-governance structure in any of the previous universities. The people here, the setting, the context. And the investment in students, particularly first-gen and limited-income students, really drew me to UVA. And just the culture here was fascinating.

Ryan: So what are some of the most important lessons you’ve learned over the years in terms of interacting with students? What are some of the principles that you live by in terms of interacting with students? Because it’s an incredibly important job and it seems to me an incredibly complicated one, just because of the sheer diversity of students in their experiences and what they go through in college.

Bonner: Yeah, so it’s a good question, it’s a couple of things that come to mind. First, I’ve always viewed students as adults that are capable of doing way more than maybe the public perceives them to be able to do. So coming to them with that mutual respect, that they are full adults – obviously a lot to learn through life in college, but capable and responsible individuals; that’s my assumption for all of them. So when I bring that to my conversations, I think it just sets a tone that I’m not talking down to students, I’m talking to them. That’s one thing; that’s just who I am. 

I think the second one is that everyone has a unique sort of experience that they bring, and respecting that and listening to that, and honoring that – sort of meeting students where they are. Some of our students are really prepared for college; they’ve had the benefit of not being a first-generation college student, to have support. And some of them, this is a new experience. So just taking the time to understand where they are, and then meeting them there, and then helping them get to where they need to go in terms of success, and identifying success based on how they define it. That could be different for every student. 

I think the third is engagement, just the principle of being engaged with students and being familiar. So it doesn’t have to be formal, but just walking around speaking to students, attending events, being, you know, approachable – because when things are challenging, it’s really helpful that students already have built some sort of relationship and trust with you, as a person, not just as the administrator coming in to help solve a problem. 

So I think those have been sort of the three things that I’ve always held to, and they’ve always worked in terms of my relationship and an engagement with students, but they are partners, and they’re really part of the ecosystem of the University, much like we look at our faculty and administration and alumni; students are an equal partner in that. So I’ve always respected it and seen it from that way.

Ryan: What changes have you seen among students in the more than two decades you’ve been involved in this work?

Bonner: The change that I’ve seen is just based on a lot of the great work that’s been done to provide and improve access and affordability, that more students are accessing colleges and universities. They bring with them some of those, you know, opportunity gaps that they’ve experienced, because they were, you know, they didn’t have the resources or they weren’t prepared as well as maybe some other students, but they’re fully capable. So I’ve seen just the diversity of students in higher ed change over my time, providing more access and affordability. 

The second thing I’ve seen is just, you know, the needs that students have. I think one of the things all of us have seen in higher education is, as we started to eliminate the stigma around mental health and support, more students started to come to us to share that they needed support or help. So I’ve seen those changes happen significantly over at least the last 10 years and maybe even more. 

And then third, I think, just the expectations of higher education have changed. From our students’ perspective, I mean, they come here with the expectation to feel like they belong, to be a part of an inclusive community, to learn. I also talk about the return on their investment. There’s the financial piece, higher education, the cost has increased and that has had a burden on families and students. And so that’s one piece, that they feel like this is a good investment. But it’s not the only piece. It’s not that all of our students are looking to make the most money after they graduate. A lot of them are looking to figure out, “Who am I? What am I good at? And how do I turn that into something meaningful in terms of work or service after college?” I think that’s a great expectation, that we are an environment that helps facilitate that. I think students are looking for more of that, than that maybe I really picked up on when I started in my career.

Ryan: When you started, I’m guessing – this is for sure true – social media was not nearly as ubiquitous as it is today. And I’m wondering, from your perspective, how that has changed the experience of students and how it’s changed the job of those who are in student affairs.

Bonner: Yes, it’s made our community bigger, in some sense. I remember when students would have conflicts, they would be between students, where you could actually facilitate the individuals involved to sit down and have a conversation about the conflict or the issue or the misunderstanding. So the ability to restore, or have this restorative justice process, was much easier because things were being said in real time, in person, or they knew the individuals personally, and so that was helpful. 

I think now with social media, it’s been difficult to first manage good information; students are getting information from a number of sources, not all of them credible. They’re communicating with people from across the world who say things or do things that may have an impact on them in our community, and a lot of times are communicating with each other electronically, and not having those face-to-face conversations, either initially or to resolve conflicts. That just makes it more difficult to really get some meaningful dialogue taking place when you’re not willing or to, to engage in person. 

So social media has benefits in terms of access to information and really getting stuff out there for awareness. But the challenges are the quality of the information and the decrease in personal engagement with other human beings. That’s been challenging.

Ryan: Yeah, I would imagine it makes your job slightly more complicated.

Bonner: It does. It does. Absolutely.

Ryan: How about the role of parents over your time in student affairs? I know that some parents send their kids off to college and wish them luck and see them at Thanksgiving and over the holidays. And other parents are more involved. What’s your stance with respect to parents who are more involved? 

Bonner: So I remember there was, there was a time when we had a term called “helicopter parents.” That was the early stage of parents being more involved. I’ve always looked at it as – I think parent involvement can be healthy when it’s balanced, like the healthy involvement. And so part of college is allowing – as a parent of three college students, so I have this personal experience – it’s an opportunity for your child to go off and leave your home and start to develop some independence and really start to problem-solve and figure out how to make sense of the world without our overbearing influence. 

And so I think when parents sort of accept that – and it’s difficult for some and probably early on, the student tends to, in my experience, thrive and really develop the skills that they’ll need after they graduate. So I think that that relationship is important, where it’s good to communicate with parents – “Here’s what we’re doing, here are the things that are happening as it relates to our community, here are ways that parents can be involved in supporting the mission of the University” – but also helping parents understand that, you know, too much involvement may not be the best thing for their student, their child as they try to develop in terms of their independence and really being able to make decisions without their parents’ over-influence. 

So it’s a delicate balance. I would say most parents in my experience have been really reasonable and a lot of us grow and evolve in that role as parents of college students. 

Ryan: So when you were at Pitt, you earned a doctorate in education from the University of Pennsylvania. I’m wondering what motivated you to do that, and what did you study in particular?

Bonner: The motivation was, in my entire life, at least when I was in my – I wouldn’t say my entire life. But when I started my master’s program, it was a goal to earn a doctorate. But when I finished my master’s, it was six years straight of school. I was burned out at the time. That’s how I felt. 

I also learned that in my master’s program, I was in a program where a lot of practitioners that were people who worked and then were getting their master’s, and they were bringing, like, a wealth of like, experience to the discussions. And I was this undergrad, right? And I was like, you know, like, I have a perspective as maybe one of the younger people, but they’re talking about things that I have no idea about. So I also started to value work experience and how that helps accent what you learn in the classroom. So I wanted some years of experience before I got a doctorate. 

Then life happens. I had a job, I had a family, and so school became less of the first priority for me. But it was always a goal that I wanted to achieve. And there were so many people like, sort of pushing me to earn that degree. And so that the opportunity came up with many years ago, 2016, and I decided to apply for the program at Pitt.

Ryan: What did you study while you were doing your doctorate?

Bonner: Higher education management. So I knew I wanted to continue in higher ed, in the management leadership area. And so it was a higher education management program, which gave you the sort of multiplicity of like, what it means, the finance piece of it, athletics, higher education policy, law, management and leadership. The curriculum was really helpful in roles of, you know, vice president, chancellor, president – it was a really well-balanced perspective. 

My particular focus was, you know, research at that time I’ve taken all of that was sense of belonging. It was an area that had been important to me, and something that I wanted to learn more about and provide some perspective to the field as it relates to sense of belonging.

Ryan: What did you discover? And how have you applied that in your current job?

Bonner: What I wanted to learn about specifically was a sense of belonging for Black undergraduate men who were attending a predominantly white university. And part of it was my personal experience. And some of it, a lot of it, had to do with the conversations I had with students, particularly Black men, about their experience and their sense of belonging. 

You know, like most graduate students, I started out really broad, I wanted to understand sense of belonging for all students. Then my advisers told me to narrow it. But that was the population. What I learned is that, you know, sense of belonging is more of a continuum, that, like, men are not a monolith, that they make sense of belonging very differently, depending on who they are, and their experiences and their environment. That it can be influenced by a number of factors. 

I also learned how supportive relationships impact sense of belonging, whether it’s with their peers, or their faculty, or their parents. 

So those were some findings that I found. I found out that, despite not having a sense of belonging – because the other feature of my study was high-achieving Black undergraduate men – despite not having the highest sense of belonging, they had something else that helped them succeed, and it was this determination to succeed despite not feeling like they belong. That was a thread that came through almost all of the men that I interviewed.

Ryan: What are the some of the things that universities can do to ensure that all students, regardless of race or background, income levels, and the like, feel a sense of belonging?

Bonner: I think one is to make sure that the environment is as diverse as possible. So, you know, as it relates to limited-income students, are we providing access to folks who are first-generation or Pell-eligible? In terms of race, ethnicity and international students, do we have representation on our university that sort of mitigates the feeling of being the only one in class or on Grounds or in a university? So I think that’s one of the roles. 

I think also creating an environment where people can come to a classroom and learn and bring their perspectives and have discussions. I think the other one is creating an environment where people know that we’re part of a community, and while it may be tough and difficult for people to come together with different perspectives and experiences, that is part of what a university is, is this opportunity for folks to learn and grow from each other. 

I think supporting programs that that support students – for example, student organizations, our CIOs at UVA are a big deal. They provide opportunities for students to find belonging with those communities that they connect with. That sort of structure and system to allow students to determine what type of organizations they want to be a part of, and the types of programs and activities, is really important because each student is going to have a different way that they find that belonging. So the big environmental representation of our diverse world, sort of the community in the values that we have as a university, including academic curiosity, and opportunities for discourse and dialogue, and also allowing our students to flourish in ways that they can define what organizations exist and what programs they bring to campus that support their understanding of each other, their knowledge and their sense of belonging. 

Ryan: Yeah, well said. 

So switching gears, you mentioned you’re a father of three students who are in college or have graduated them. Do you ever find yourself treating them like you’re the chief student affairs officer of your home?

Bonner: They don’t allow me. I have no authority really, other than Dad. Like you and I could say the same thing and they will listen to you and say, “That’s really good advice, President Ryan.”

Ryan: Unless the “they” are my kids. 

Bonner: Right, right. So they know what I do. The older they get, the more they tap me for my perspective. But when all of them have been in college, you know, it’s interesting. You know, I’m Dad, so yeah, that evolution of parenting, you become much wiser as they become older. 

Ryan: In addition to parenting, what do you like to do when you’re not at work?

Bonner: So I do a couple of things. I run and walk. I don’t run at the level that you do. I know, people keep asking me that, and I’m like, I’m not a Boston Marathoner, or although I’ve done a marathon. I’ve done a few half-marathons. But I like to walk and run. So that just helps me clear my head. 

I also got into making music two years ago, just producing music. My father passed away in 2021 and he had this huge album collection, vinyl, and I collected all of those and cleaned all of the albums and just started using those to like sample like old ’70s and Motown and just started to be creative and have amassed maybe like, 150, like, songs just for a hobby. 

Ryan: No kidding.

Bonner: Yeah, I taught myself how to do that just by reading a little bit, watching some YouTube and then experimenting with the equipment. So that’s another way that I escape using a different part of my brain. 

And then, you know, I’ll read books, just to keep that part of my mind sharp as well. So right now, I’m reading “Radical Candor,” which is really talking about, like, how to say what you mean, and be clear, but also be compassionate and how you speak to people. And then someone just recommended that I read the book “Subtract,” by Leidy Klotz. Yeah, so I’m really interested in getting into that book. 

Ryan: So going back to producing music, when are you going to have a public debut? Are you going to share your product?

Bonner: No, no, this is all – this is all personal stuff. Maybe if I do something that’s like, I feel like it’s really cool, something that I could share publicly, I would. I just, I think I love the fact that it’s just me doing it. I’m learning a lot through the process and it’s just a way to use a different parts of my brain. So it was never intended to do anything publicly. But it is a really fun hobby, and you’re using a different skill set when you’re doing that. Music, I think is very different than a lot of things I do during the day.

Ryan: Right. So one last question for you, Kenyon: If you could, through this podcast, reach every student at UVA, what are the one or two things you would want them to hear? 

Bonner: There are lots of things. 

I think that things that come to mind is “you belong here.” I think of a number of – too many of our students, I was like this – come to school, college, UVA included, and they maybe think that they’re an admissions error, or somehow they got here by luck. So I would want all students to know that, you know, we take very serious – when we admit you to UVA, we believe you have what it takes to be successful here. So first and foremost, hearing that from us, I think it’s helpful. When I was a student, no one really said that to me. 

I would say “ask for help.” But this is a place that has a lot of resources and people who really care about your success. And so don’t suffer in silence. Ask for help. The help is here. And there are really great people who want to who want to support you and get you on the right track, if that’s what it needs to be. 

Then the last thing I would say is, “While you’re here, be curious.” This is an environment where you can learn a whole lot about the world, about people, about yourself, and you get the most out of your experience when you’re curious and you ask really good questions and you want to engage in conversations where you’re challenging your assumptions and beliefs. We have great faculty, great research, and great students, who provide that that environment. So be curious. You belong here and do not suffer in silence. Please ask for help.

Ryan: That’s a great message. Kenyon, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast. I know I speak on behalf of all of my colleagues here – we are incredibly fortunate to have you at UVA. Thanks. 

Bonner: Thank you.

Aaryan Balu, co-producer of “Inside UVA”: “Inside UVA” is a production of WTJU 91.1 FM and the Office of the President at the University of Virginia. “Inside UVA” is produced by Jaden Evans, Aaryan Balu, Mary Garner McGehee and Matt Weber. Special thanks to Maria Jones and McGregor McCance. 

Our music is “Turning to You” from Blue Dot Sessions. 

You can listen and subscribe to “Inside UVA” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We’ll be back soon with another conversation about the life of the University.